[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead ¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - Gay persons position in family
Thinking of gay people I know personally (including myself), none of them, to my knowledge, has an older brother. I'm an only child with two older half-sisters on my dad's side, my friend's the older twin by a few minutes, an acquaintance has two older sisters but no brothers, two online friends have no older brothers. Other gay people I know, I don't know well enough to know about their siblings. So you could count that as five votes for no. I'm sure there must be others I can't think of...
Of course, those researchers probably used a scientific sample, not just people on a forum. We could conclude here that Joanna Newsom fans tend to (be acquainted with people who) have older brothers (or that Joanna Newsom fans don't tend to know people with older brothers); depending on how the survey was conducted, you could conclude that people who offer data on themselves for scientific trials tend to have older brothers, though I'm guessing/hoping they had a control group of people who weren't selected on the basis of their sexual orientation.
It's funny, I noticed growing up that ALL my gay friends were older siblings, entirely to the contrary of these reports.
On an unrelated note, I really wanted to make a thread a while back wondering just why so many Tadpoles were gay, but I couldn't think of a way to phrase the topic. It seems about 2/3 of the guys on here are gay which is pretty surprising.
I don't think it's all that surprising. Well, maybe the extent is, a little, but she's not the most macho artist to get into if you inhabit a social reality in which your masculinity is judged constantly and any deviation from the norm is descended on by a flock of frightened, insecure rivals like new gladiators fighting for the right to be killed in a show match.
Incidentally, I'm very sceptical of physiological explanations of homosexuality. Are we to assume that a 'gay gene' was especially prevalent in most, but not all, of classical Greece, or that in those parts where homosexuality was institutional and bisexuality was the norm most men were younger brothers whose elder siblings died in infancy? Explanations based on genetics, birth order, etc. universalise an idea of sexuality specific to one culture in one period. Rates of and ideas about sexuality vary drastically geographically and historically. "Homosexual" was not a sexual category for most of history in most places.
I've heard of this theory. Something else I've heard is that when you're living with someone from a very young age you're desensitised from having any sexual attraction to them.
BTW, it's supposed to be specifically gay males for whom the 'older brother' theory is supposed to hold true, if anybody was wondering
Well, I'm much more skeptical of environmental explanations than physiological ones although of course I have no idea either way. Perhaps universalising whatever narrow definition of homosexuality we have is a bad thing, but I don't think that theorising about homosexuality in the broadest sense (i.e. trying the phenomenon of male-male attraction through biology) is setting anybody back. I don't think cultural sexual categories really say anything about gay population levels either - it probably says more about what individuals held cultural influence. Pederastic relationships don't require attraction necessarily, and being molested by a pederast doesn't have to be particularly traumatising if it's a social convention and you're lauded for it. Similarly, if there's not even a category for it, it's probably just so impossible to openly enact that it cannot be categorised - thinking of gay women in UAE.
Of course, there's still the argument that everybody has the potential for homosexual or heterosexual attraction, and it's a sign of our particular place and period that there is such a strong divide between the two. It's very difficult to have any sexual fluidity and be fully accepted by mainstream society, and this is probably a part of what motivates scientists to look for a 'gay gene' in the first place.
^ intersting to read Jordan! (though I sometimes have trouble understanding the difficult english words )
By the way, recently a neuroscientist came to Amsterdam to talk about many aspects of the brain, including sexual orientation. He said that sexual orientation all happens in the womb, in 2 stages. According to him: -First there is the sexual orientation of your body: if you will be a boy or a girl. Boys will get a penis, girls a vagina. -Then, in the second half of pregnancy, there is the sexual orientation of your brain. Normally the presence of testosterone will make the boys heterosexual, and the absence of testosterone will make girls heterosexual. However, if there is an absence of testosterone in the second half of pregnancy while having a boy, his brain will start to resemble a girls brain in many ways. This may lead to being homosexual, or even transexual. The opposite would apply for girls: presence of testosterone in the second half of pregnancy would give her brain masculine aspects.
I'm not sure I believe that it can all be explained that easily really Gerben. For example I have a friend who says he was straight until he was about 16 then suddenly started feeling attracted to guys, and he genuinely had girlfriends who he was attracted to before then. He's a good friend, with no reason to lie, and he says girls don't interest him anymore. I think it's gotta be (as ever) a mixture of cultural and genetic factors.
oohlala, the explaination you report gerben makes me uʍop ǝpısdn. gay men aren't always feminine so supposively testosterone deficient, and all gay women aren't butches...i know very delicate and feminine lesbian and "normal" viril men. @alex, i think findind a biological issue of the homosexuality isn't a bad idea, even if it's not necessary. you say, nobody research about hetero biologia, but there is bio factors!! it is the reproduction factor, "nature" make us appealing to the other sex to reproduce the race. then searching about homosexuality isn't to point the "abnormal factor" but the difference! excuse me but i'm not keen on the sociological factor more "my mama loves me so much as my sis i was the little doll of my (matriarcal) family so i turn gay", my father and i play "men"games, fishing, motocross etc..and i did'nt turn gay, i'm bi, he bought my little sis dolls and little poney and she's not straight i ask myself what is the predisposition to be gay, straight or be, why my mother, my sis and i are both active bisexual, it's not commom, and it's not a family copy act as i only know late that my mother had girls in her panel, as my sis, as we discuss about this quite late in our sexual development. i didn't like to put the greek and te christians into the debate as it's clearly social behavior. were they gay or act like cos of social norm? as i don't think contrary to the islamist speech that there is less gay men in muslim country contrary to occidental. except you understand the main message as it's difficult to explain
I do agree! fully! I was just musing disorganised-ly! In fact I was just discussing with the boyf yesterday about how attempts at explanations, or even the act of thinking a physological explanation is necessary, can be much more damaging than they are scientifically meritable! Scientists definitely do need to look beyond cultural norms if they're going to come up with anything valid. It doesn't necessarily mean that sexuality is always fluid, though, but of course we don't know either way!
I still don't think that attraction is necessary in order to enact cultural norms, but then 'attraction' is very hard to define anyway. If there's going to be any physiological theorising, though, that should be the key!
Didn't read all of what everyone wrote (due to tl/dr) but I am gay and am the oldest in my family, so no older brother! Also, I am not really effeminate unless I'm alone in the shower dancing around to Joanna, so maybe there's a pattern here? Or something?
My highschool gym teacher told us that homosexuality occurred when a male had more estrogen than testosterone and that it could be remediated with some good ol' fashioned testosterone injections.
I'm not lying. He said this.
If this were true shouldn't I have a rockin' pair of tits? I mean, I'm getting a bit bosomy lately... I guess I should exercise.
^ I've heard there have been experiments like that, injecting certain hormones into kids and teenagers. Time after time it prove to be unsuccessful and sexuality would not be altered through genetic intervention.