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preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead ¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - Excessive?
I can see how you find excess to be necessary in the final realization of the album. It is looking at the excess as an "aesthetic" choice.
I also found it interesting that you cited the lyrics in themselves to "reveal" the sort of intentionality of excess.
However, I find that the aesthetic choices were poor in that the "excess" could probably be executed better. Perhaps if the title track were the longest track in which deals with a loose theme of excess and the other tracks dealt with something else and were less, then the aesthetic of excess would be easier to come to terms with. I feel that the theme of excess need not require an album length of 2 hours.
Granted, there are albums in which are near that length that I love, but the intentionality that you are suggesting madpawn is what I find unsuccessful.
I can engage lengthily about why ys is my favorite record i've heard yet, but such an indulgence would be superfluous here.
I really would just love to say that I think it's rather fantastic that Have One On Me was just over 2 hours long. I don't really see any of the material on the record to be lackluster -- compositionally, the music and lyrics are very impressive (even if some of the progressions are basic). I don't see this as a 'pop' record either -- the expanse of music is very trying. It indeed takes time for things to reveal themselves. The production was a tad disappointing. What I mean by that is that Joanna seems to under-sing sometimes. The emotion that I fell in love with in Esme is not as present on the record as it was live. It's understandable though, and it doesn't detract from me enjoying the record. Is 2 hours excessive? Only if the music was dull and unimaginative or unengaging! There isn't a song that I don't find engaging on the record -- especially lyrics-wise. Her poetry speaks so fluidly and it's all ripe with mystery. I have not a problem sitting down with the record and just listening to it.
Interestingly enough, I ran across an avant garde music magazine that I read off and on and the current issue features a review of Have One On Me that teeters between my points and many of the points here on this thread.
Unfortunately, the website does not have the article posted, but here is the current cover of the issue:
I found the above discussion interesting. Eureka has made the point that he found the album too long, too lacking in highlights, and this is indeed a viewpoint that I've heard from others.
The question that then arises, is: Would "Have One On Me" have been better if it had been distilled down to a smaller number of songs - those which he found more interesting?
However, the validity of this question is then weakened by the fact that Eureka struggled to distinguish any song which he found more satisfying, by which we may assume that even if the album had been reduced from 120+ minutes to 10 minutes, he'd still have found it "excessive".
Another argument against pruning the release came when Eureka was pressed into volunteering a song that he found more acceptable than the others, and he came up with Autumn. For me, Autumn remains a still rather impenetrable corner of the album - one of the few songs that I have not warmed to so far. So if I had been given the task of pruning the album, that would have been one of the first to go (thus weakening it for Eureka), and doubtless if he had pruned it, something else would have gone - perhaps a song that I regard as a highlight.
I think we know enough about Joanna to accept that if she found something not to be "working", she would not include it. Therefore, she is happy with all 18 songs on the album, and leaves it to each listener to comprehend them all as best he or she can, and to exclude any they don't like. After all, the majority of us consume our music in CD or MP3 format, in which skipping a track or revising a running-order is very straightforward.
I for one am more than happy that Joanna has made a bold, breathtaking, and unique album. I should say, "another bold, breathtaking", etc..., for those adjectives certainly apply to "Ys", and probably to "Milk-Eyed Mender" too. I am happy that she has included all 18 of these songs. If she had not, and perhaps had released a single or double album, with the opportunity of getting the remainder on a limited edition bonus disc, I bet most readers here would have opted for the longer version, even if they felt that the bonus songs were "weaker" than the "core" material.
But this brings me to another point. I'm a little ashamed to admit it now, but my first listen to "HOOM" did leave me a bit underwhelmed. I know others have felt the same way, and it very much looks as though this happened for Eureka, too. But, appreciating the complexity of this particular artist, and because I had invested so much anticipation in the run-up to its release (based on the love I developed for "Ys"), I was prepared to give it another listen. And another. As a result, what was at first an album of 1 or 2 great songs and 16-17 indeterminate ones, came to contain 4 or 5 great songs ... and then 9 or 10 ... and now about 14. Oddly, in those early days, while I was still getting to know "HOOM", I would find a fragment of melody (or, more rarely, a lyric line) playing inside my head, and subsequently realise that it was from one of the songs I had been regarding with less affection. I have recently come to like Jackrabbits (though still less than most), which means that there are just 4 songs which which I have so far failed to fully engage (for what it's worth, they are No Provenance; You & Me, Bess; Occident; and Autumn). But would I prefer to have the album with or without them? I'll take the full 18 song version, please!
EXCESS: I agree with the poster who says that releasing 3 albums of original, well-crafted material is NOT excessive. Releasing essentially the same album in various versions, with pointless remixes, with different "bonus tracks" and the like IS an excess, in my opinion, and is cynically designed to cash in on the 'completist' market. Releasing numerous "live" sets, each more-or-less similar to the others is pointless (but by all means put out one good "best of" edited together from various shows, as a record of a particular tour). And then there are plenty of artists in the modern idiom, whose entire output seems to consist of minor variants of the same few notes, beats, and limited vocabulary: even one more release from some of these could be considered excessive!
QUALITY: Packaging a triple album is probably not easy, but I was pleased to see that my CD copy completed the trip across the Atlantic in pristine condition, and I aim to keep it that way if I can. Plastic trays can be fragile, and complicated foldy things (like on Björk's "Volta") are prone to tearing, whilst I can never get her award-winning "Family Tree" set to close properly. So while it's not perfect, I praise Drag City for keeping the packaging for "Have One On Me" relatively simple. It would have been nice if we could ALL have had the poster, though ... whatever did happen to the promised scan?! I'm not an expert, so I can't really comment on the quality of the paper / card etc: mine seems OK, it's folded well, and I have certainly seen a lot worse.
Perhaps Eureka's most pertinent point may be his criticism of the production - and I say that because other people (presumably more expert than I am) have also said so. I really would be interested to read a more detailed critique of the faults, so that I could understand better what seems to be wrong with the recording. I know that there are a couple of extraneous noises, particularly near the start of some of the tracks on CD1, but I actually quite like those: they are (I imagine) the soft footsteps of a band member, or a slight creak in the harp's bearings, or some other such 'organic' sound that proves we're listening to 'real' music and not something created inside a computer. (That's not meant as a criticism of electronic music, however). I am reminded of the creak of Nico's pump organ in some of her recordings, or Cathy Davey's endearing little cough at the beginning of Yak Yak, both of which add to the delight of the song in question, and I think the same goes for Joanna's extraneous noises here. The one place where I do feel slightly short-changed is in the climax of Baby Birch, where it is difficult to make out the lyrics - which are very powerful - without recourse to the booklet.
Sorry if my posting falls into the category of 'excessive', but I did want to add my remarks, and to thank Eureka for bringing up some very interesting points for us to discuss.
i'm gonna call a troll a troll. fine, don't like the album and have your reasons for it. i call bullshit that, of all songs, the only one that Eureka finds palatable is Autumn. Oooh, how dangerously obscure to pick the underdog. both Kingfisher and HOOM could have fit nicely on the Ys Street Band EP, which he has professed to prefer over HOOM, the album.
separately, i'd like clarification on what is passing for "pop" these days. six minute songs with harp, sparse percussion, horns and string arrangements (fucking string arrangements!) don't really fit the current KEI$HA mold. i don't see how this album is any more popish than MEM or Ys.
I still haven't heard Eureka define "success." He has only made it clear that HOOM didn't work for him and that it was "extraneous." I'm still not hearing concrete criticism, just an opinion. If that's all you have, then it is not unreasonable to assume that you are just disgruntled and want to stir up sh*t on a Joanna Newsom fan forum.
I don't really question my love of the album, I just love it so much. There is nothing wrong with finding fault with it I guess, in a civil way that is
And every little gust that chances through Will dance in the dust of me and you
eureka, please, calm down, you have to understand there is some pb with your tone, why are you so aggresive?of course people are aggersive back as it seems that you possess the holy graal.
in my language "excéssif" is a negativ word, i mean really negative, when i act like a diva, people told me with a grin "she's such excessive". we all understand here that you dislike HOOM, ok, no pb with that, but all your argument are based upon YOUR feelings. you dealt with the studio recording technique, i worked in music studio, and you only find 0.1per cent of the musician who recording all together, why? balance. most of my favourite albums, among pop, folk, classic arent't recorded full live.
you dealt with the mix, i was among the first to complained hardly with the mix, then i said for myself, if such a great musician (with such a good hear) have waited so much years to released this album like that, so there is some reasons. can't say whic as i don't really read interviews and such, but she propably explained herself about that no?
then the "pop" thing...well. did you want she stays in her folky-gunne sax-home made album mood forever? me not. i love when bjork improves extreme techno, tiny beats, organic vocals, i like when cocorosie made an album in the bathroom, a hip-hop ones, a german eletro ones.
a true artist is someone who all day long improve the definition of art, it's not me, it's picasso if i well remembered, two of my french beloved director Alain Resnais and Jean-Luc Godart never do the same movie, and godart wrote and/or directed near 100movies.
if you can't bear that joanna evolves so, ok, stop listen to further albums but stop saying she failed only cos you're not into it, it's really presomptuous. i love HOOM, and ys never got my interest, most of here love ys, ok, it's not my sensitivity. i ever said that i think arrangements are musically poor, mixing too shiny etc...and i'm a musician too, i know how it is to write, arrange and record, even if my world now is cinema.
Eureka thx for hanging in there with this, even though some of the comments have gotten a little "raw". I hope you understand that perhaps your terseness and "percieved" attack on Joanna have gotten under the skin of a few of our boardmates and caused them to lash out uncharacteristicly
I've thought a great deal about this excessiveness point of yours and how to respond to it. My first impulse is to go song by song, pointing out what i think are great points about them, to see if u might gain a different perspective on the work. While i may yet attempt that, as my only logical recourse to not being able to "take apart" your thesis as it stands, i will offer this:
You see the work as excessive and others have made the case for that excessiveness, i think the term is incorrect and would offer this in its place: "time" Because after repeated listens i don't think this is an 'easy' listen, i think the structure and lyrics are still as complex as her previous work, and that the languid length of the offering is intended to let the body of the work, wash over us. And it takes time for it to really sink in. Now perhaps for you 4 straight listens to the 3 discs will invoke deep hatred for the work rather than disintrest, but i think it worth the effort to give the value of the piece a chance to wake for you. While i still stand by the idea that Joanna was attempting to be more mainstream/accessable on the surface with this album, i think the complexity of her emotions on the subject of being a woman and grinding through a failed love affair(with great expectations built up on/in it), and yet again finding love on the rebound('wash that man right outa my hair') unexpectedly, has created an emotional confusion in this album/artist that needed to be carefully, forcefully, blindly worked through. It took great effort and resolve to pin these emotional states and confusions/realizations to music, to work out her self in the process and bring the whole mess back into a presentable musical state to set before us. I think it took alot of time to work it all through and the excess you are feeling, is really that time.....time for you to experience/realize it with her.
dwain
The thing i like best about deciphering Joanna's songs...i'm always wrong.
i find all-you-can-eat buffets to be excessive. there's a lot of food and none of it is particularly good. i don't feel that way about HOOM and, if i did, i sure wouldn't waste more than a minute discussing it online.