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¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.
Page 2 of 3

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 15:13
by Relayor
Alex, I peddle “The Closing of the American Mind” for many reasons. One being that if you read it, then you will discover that you (I mean specifically you) will discover that your enjoyment of what’s broadly defined as “rock” music makes you a walking, breathing contradiction.

I mean specifically that the success of the “rock” (this is broadly defined) music industry as a prototypical example of Capitalism is in direct contradiction to the anti-Capitalist sentiment you’ve written or implied in your replies to the several topics we are discussing.

I’m saying that your expressed perspective is abjectly unexamined and it’s expression is evidence--an intellectually repulsive variety--is confirmed evidence of my belief (long-held and examined) that a great percentage of Left/Progressive ideology requires its adherents to abide a dangerous intellectual dissonance--which are, I repeat, caused by the adoption of unavoidable contradictions.

Let me return to your repulsive Capitalism as expressed in your enjoyment and acceptance of “rock” music. Please read this excerpt from Bloom’s book; pages 76 to 78.


…. The family spiritual void has left the field open to rock music, and they cannot possibly forbid their children to listen to it. It is everywhere; all children listen to it; forbidding it would simply cause them to lose their children's affection and obedience. When they turn on the television, they will see President Reagan warmly grasping the daintily proffered gloved hand of Michael Jackson and praising him enthusiastically. Better to set the faculty of denial in motion--void noticing what the words say, assume the kid will get over it. If he has early sex, that won't get in the way of his having stable relationships later. His drug use will certainly stop at pot. School is providing real values. And popular historicism provides the final salvation: there are new life-styles for new situations, and the older generation is there not to impose its values but to help the younger one to find its own. TV, which compared to music plays a comparatively small role in the formation of young people's character and taste, is a consensus monster--the Right monitors its content for sex, the Left for violence, and many other interested sects for many other things. But the music has hardly been touched, and what efforts have been made are both ineffectual and misguided about the nature and extent of the problem.

The result is nothing less than parents' loss of control over their children's moral education at a time when no one else is seriously concerned with it. This has been achieved by an alliance between the strange young males who have the gift of divining the mob's emergent wishes--our versions of Thrasymachus, Socrates' rhetorical adversary--and the record-company executives, the new robber barons, who mine gold out of rock. They discovered a few years back that children are one of the few groups in the country with considerable disposable income, in the form of allowances. Their parents spend all they have providing for the kids. Appealing to them over their parents' heads, creating a world of delight for them, constitutes one of the richest markets in the postwar world. The rock business is perfect capitalism, supplying to demand and helping to create it. It has all the moral dignity of drug trafficking, but it was so totally new and unexpected that nobody thought to control it, and now it is too late. Progress may be made against cigarette smoking because our absence of standards or our relativism does not extend to matters of bodily health. In all other things the market determines the value. (Yoko Ono is among America's small group of billionaires, along with oil and computer magnates, her late husband having produced and sold a commodity of worth comparable to theirs.) Rock is very big business, bigger than the movies, bigger than professional sports, bigger than television, and this accounts for much of the respectability of the music business. It is difficult to adjust our vision to the changes in the economy and to see what is really important. McDonald's now has more employees than U.S. Steel, and likewise the purveyors of junk food for the soul have supplanted what still seem to be more basic callings.

This change has been happening for some time. In the late fifties, De Gaulle gave Brigitte Bardot one of France's highest honors. I could not understand this, but it turned out that she, along with Peugeot, was France's biggest export item. As Western nations became more prosperous, leisure, which had been put off for several centuries in favor of the pursuit of property, the means to leisure, finally began to be of primary concern. But, in the meantime, any notion of the serious life of leisure, as well as men's taste and capacity to live it, had disappeared. Leisure became entertainment. The end for which they had labored for so long has turned out to be amusement, a justified conclusion if the means justify the ends. The music business is peculiar only in that it caters almost exclusively to children, treating legally and naturally imperfect human beings as though they were ready to enjoy the final or complete satisfaction. It perhaps thus reveals the nature of all our entertainment and our loss of a clear view of what adulthood or maturity is, and our incapacity to conceive ends. The emptiness of values results in the acceptance of the natural facts as the ends. In this case infantile sexuality is the end, and I suspect that, in the absence of other ends, many adults have come to agree that it is.

It is interesting to note that the Left, which prides itself on its critical approach to "late capitalism" and is unrelenting and unsparing in its analysis of our other cultural phenomena, has in general given rock music a free ride. Abstracting from the capitalist element in which it flourishes, they regard it as a people's art, coming from beneath the bourgeoisie's layers of cultural repression. Its antinomianism and its longing for a world without constraint might seem to be the clarion of the proletarian revolution, and Marxists certainly do see that rock music dissolves the beliefs and morals necessary for liberal society and would approve of it for that alone. But the harmony between the young intellectual Left and rock is probably profounder than that. Herbert Marcuse appealed to university students in the sixties with a combination of Marx and Freud. In Eros and Civilization and One Dimensional Man he promised that the overcoming of capitalism and its false consciousness will result in a society where the greatest satisfactions are sexual, of a sort that the bourgeois moralist Freud called polymorphous and infantile. Rock music touches the same chord in the young. Free sexual expression, anarchism, mining of the irrational unconscious and giving it free rein are what they have in common. The high intellectual […] and the low rock world are partners in the same entertainment enterprise. They must both be interpreted as parts of the cultural fabric of late capitalism. Their success comes from the bourgeois' need to feel that he is not bourgeois, to have undangerous experiments with the unlimited. He is willing to pay dearly for them. The Left is better interpreted by Nietzsche than by Marx. The critical theory of late capitalism is at once late capitalism's subtlest and crudest expression. Anti-bourgeois ire is the opiate of the Last Man.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 15:33
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 15:38
by Jordan~
I like punk rock, not rock. To say that the left has given rock a free ride is really dumb. The whole punk rock movement was and still is about not giving rock a free ride, though with the advent of the self-obsessed Generation Z it's lost rather a lot of steam. There's a lot about mainstream rock with which I'm very uncomfortable - the lavish lifestyles of the metal stars, the blatant commercialism, the associations with the big record labels all make me slightly nauseous and, if they don't impede my enjoyment of the music, do prevent me from buying any of it. Let me be perfectly clear: Yoko Ono should be taxed till she bleeds out of her ears, just the same as any other billionaire.
I steal my music or I buy it from the artist, not from their label. Believe me when I say I will not give a penny to Sony for a song when I can get it free from the good people at Pirate Bay.
Drag City, I'm more willing to pay, but I'd still rather (and still do) get the music off the merch stand at a gig. Same with Victory Records, Streetlight Manifesto's label - they openly boycotted their label because they were being screwed over and started their own indie label, the Pentimento Music Company, with the specific intention of respecting and remunerating the artist, so that shouldn't be a problem for much longer. I bought all their albums through their RISC Store, where the money goes directly to the band, after I decided I wanted to financially support them.

Image

What I'm asking you, Scherado, is to take mercy on your fellow man. How much do you value your money? Enough to let people die so that you can enjoy the knowledge that it's rotting away in a bank? Enough to let people be sick, to let people live lives of unrealised potential, to deny your fellow man the priveleges which you hold dear for yourself? I'm asking you to empathise and to allow that empathy to influence your political thinking, whatever that implies.

Stand for public office in America? Not while everyone's sleeping, Scherado. The state itself is rotten to the core. Once the bonfires start burning and the people start singing, I'll be there, rifle in hand, to fight the feds.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 16:04
by Jordan~
Also, the book is contemptible. Read some serious anthropology, for absence-of-a-God's sake.

Bourgeois moralism. :rolleyes:

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 17:38
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 17:41
by Jordan~
I understood. My point is that it's an invalid generalisation.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 17:43
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 17:54
by Jordan~
I'll bet I do know a few. Anyway, regardless of your personal situation, the question was more general. How much do you value the money of the rich, let's say?

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2010, 21:44
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2010, 01:32
by Jordan~
Today I'm too drunk to answer any of these posts. This post is a difficult exercise of willpower.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2010, 01:35
by Relayor
You've never once followed the guidelines of this thread.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2010, 01:38
by Jordan~
Sorry. I'm wasted. Tomorrow will be a day without alcohol until the sun sets. Is that better? I'm going for a fag, you make me smoke about twice as much as I usually do.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2010, 01:42
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2010, 02:05
by Jordan~
Oh, life and death, what does it all mean? I don't care, I have shit to get done.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2010, 14:45
by milkisobel
me, i care of how you can manage your time, experience jordan, and don't think enter into this thread is a good thing to improve your love of life

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2010, 15:12
by Relayor

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2010, 15:26
by Jordan~

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 03 Jul 2015, 22:20
by r-enter-ested
Oh, well...

I go to about 4 to 6 A.A. meetings per week. I have a sponsor. I have a coffee-making commitment in my home-group.

I never get much more than a handful of days clean at a time.

In May, 2014, I spent 36 days in the County lock-up (jail) for a probation violation and was released from probation.

I still have no driver's license, but have been working here and there.

I had a job answering phones at a masonry business but one of my bosses was very scarey and I quit.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 22 Jul 2015, 03:38
by r-enter-ested
All that money in my pocket...and did I keep it in my pocket, very close.

I took a hitchhiking spree to New Paltz, NY, (not far from Woodstock) which was once a great place to...be, but it's all restaurants and nick-knacks, shops now, no scene, all the way down to..."The Boot"-- a cement and rock outcrop by the river that used to be where people gathered to get high, drink. Around 2008, I once gave a girl, a young woman, who was sitting there watching the summer rain shower pass with the sun shining on our faces, my copy of Ys in CD format. She had finished her finals at the town's College and she was celebrating. I never saw her again.

I got there in two rides, the first was one mile, the second was all the way there--over the Hudson River and into New Paltz: I gave the guy $20; it's a solid hour car ride to NP.

I went to NP to acquire--I'll use the euphemism--a substitution, the substitution. When one is addicted to a drug (dextromethorphan) and it becomes destructive, it is wise to substitute with another, less harmful drug if you can not stop taking the destructive one. This is a means to avoid death and that is it's justification. This method has, to date, not worked very well. The substitution is very difficult to get where I live and if you're my age, hence the tedious trip to New Paltz.

I left the next day without any substitution.

I was hitchhiking stone-cold sober at 4:30 in the morning when the State Troopers descended upon me, asked many questions and informed me that I am not allowed to "stick out my arm" in an attempt to "get help".

I thanked them and wondered whether they weren't permitted to use the word "hitchhike"--perhaps it gives offense to some grievance group, I don't know.

And I made it back home in two rides! The second guy knew me from an AA meeting and took me to my doorstep!

Well, all this was last week and I've gotten into some shit since...


Oh, I forgot to mention that my avatar is a cell-phone photo taken at The Boot during winter 2008.

Re: The Milky Mooners Sobriety Safehouse.

PostPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 00:20
by r-enter-ested
My Sponsor just fired me--by text-message. Fucking text message...

It was long overdue.