[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead ¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - Masculine Feminine: Have One On Her
I agree with the whole fairy thing being kind of offensive, but this kind of thing is essentially what critics do all the time, categorize artists by the most obvious aspect of their work. Joanna Newsom is a fairy princess, PJ Harvey is angry all the time, etc., and some people just have problems seeing past these false stereotypes.
But it's still relatively early in Joanna's career, she's growing even more as an artist still and there is time to prove herself and to attract a wider audience where she may only be confusing people now.
And he used to make me pray, wearing a mask like a death's head. When he put me there in the back seat, and he said, "Jesus save me, Jesus save me."
And Joni was a fairy princess, then angry all the time!
Hmm... perhaps it's a tradition for all "serious" women songwriters to end up being categorised as "angry feminists" as they age and write on more topical subjects (Bjork is included in this as well). Maybe we can expect a Dog Eat Dog out of Joanna at some point in the future? (God I hope not)
This is an excellent article by the way and a great read
@Jordan great post! It is very interesting that there was little music you listened to before Joanna. Perhaps our fatigue with conventional pop is what intensifies the devotion with which we latch onto anything different. I know that the trajectory of my own musical discovery has been like a series of dislocations and relocations, where I'm ardently fanatic about one singular band, tire completely, then transfer the fanaticism onto something more mature or complex. I think I've reached the stage where there's fairly comprehensive mass of musicians I respect and adore, though (at the centre of which, of course, lies Joanna).
By the way, I would argue that gay folk do have to deal with gender politics, albeit in a different way. We're still brought up with certain notions on what men and women should be, and there's still gender conventions that affect our relations (penetration = domination, butch/femme paradigm etc), but whatever sexual need there is to repress and stereotype women isn't there, as our interactions with them are different. I think our most basic, juvenile convictions about women are still going to determine how we view them. Anyway, representations of realistic homosexual gender dynamics are completely absent from popular culture, so we're often forced into accepting heterosexual stereotypes as the default.
Interesting! I wouldn't have instinctively said that the whole pederastic relationship dynamic could have been replicated in mainstream modern gay culture, but it seems like a logical conclusion after reading that. While I certainly agree that make/female dynamics, if they even exist at all, are very fluid in gay relationships (at least, more so nowadays), I still think that even gay subcultures are going to hold certain views on what men and women should be. I don't think that gay 'community' is quite as aware of gender as it seems to think it is - I think there are still prevalent negative attitudes towards the transgendered, particularly transsexuals, for example - but that's mostly based on my personal experiences with it.
How do you think gay men, as a general group, are influenced in their attitudes toward women?
Hehe, fanaticism takes dedication - I've spent more time seriously and critically thinking about and doing research on Joanna's music than just about anybody else's. It'd probably be too exhausting to be fanatic about more than a few! It's always been kind of strange to me, though, that 'moved to tears' seems to be, for most people, the primary criterion for appreciating art. Art has many functions, and beauty takes many forms! It's just a shame that I can't really physically cry at anything, no matter how much emotion it stirs. I do feel that overwhelming, bumblebee-belly sense of beauty when I listen to Joanna, though (not so much its physical beauty - what tends to affect me most are those perfect momentary musical and poetic expressions of loneliness or disconnectedness), so perhaps that's a form of internal crying. As a side note (and out of curiosity), who's the artist you admire most, other than Joanna?
I really like your little Have One On Me graphic by the way...
That was very insightful, Jordan, both on a personal level and on the subject of musical taxonomy (which I find fascinating, even if I don't know very much about it). And I am extremely impressed that you came up with a well argued and pertinent 1000+ word posting in response to my message of only about 2 hours earlier!