[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead ¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - see the goose...
So baby birch is about abortion, right? but who's? I think jo's, because she says "your eyes are green, your hair is gold/ your hair is black, your eyes are blue." Joanna has golden hair and green eyes,a and bill callahan has blue eyes and black hair. plus she wrote the song when she was with him, or just over him.
opinion, please.
Of course, I have one aim, the grotesque. If I am not grotesque I am nothing.
Ooooh, are we gonna have the abortion debate again?
Yeah, I always assumed it was about Joanna/Bill (even if the eye color doesn't match up?) just because I think it's pretty much been confirmed that the album is about her and Bill, so it seems to me to fit within that narrative -- dealing with the loss.
Is his hair black in person? It looks medium brown at darkest in photos. This is always a fun debate. Abortion or not, I agree with Jessie that this song seems too personal to not be about Joanna.
That's odd. I seem to remember Baby Birch being discussed on the old board with admirable restraint and sensitivity. Since y'all are from the old board, I guess I remember wrong
I think last time I posted about it, I pointed out that it did make me feel strange to be discussing whether Joanna had had an abortion. But then we went on to discuss it. A lot.
These are songs she puts put publicly, and I don't think discussing the meaning of them is out of line. I think that many of our discussions would probably make Joanna Newsom very uncomfortable and bothered (hence my comment above), but I don't think that means we shouldn't have them
I seem to remember a lot from the old board that was much worse, but then I may be one of the few who read it from first post to last. If Joanna read everything we ever said, she might just become a hermit and stop performing in public altogether. We've seen what happens when she reads just a little of the insensitive and hurtful things some so-called or unthinking fans say about her. But...I think a lot of the speculation about her would end if she would just...tell us everything in the Everything You Wanted to Know about Joanna Newsom Daily Vlog on youtube!
There could be other possibilities besides abortion, you know - as much as I can totally agree with that interpretation, perhaps the idea of a child is simply a way of addressing future plans? Perhaps she really, REALLY wants to have a kid, and she had sort of expected to be with Bill FOREVER and have his babies? On A Good Day and Go Long makes references to babies and leaving, so I think it's totally possible.
I also agree that it isn't out-of-line to suggest or discuss it as an abortion. If you're going to make any sort of art and put it out there for public consumption, you can't be upset with people for trying to figure it out, even if they are wrong. It would be really, really selfish otherwise - "buy my art, but don't you dare think about it!"
I never thought it was a literal abortion so much as the abortion of a possibility - the loss of a potential future child with a lover. I kind of get that vibe from some other songs, too.
Yeah, I don't think discussing her personal life in regards to her songs is really insensitive.
Honestly, I believe our very existence makes her uncomfortable. I know that she disliked that people named the unreleased live tracks (what're we supposed to do? Number them?). Point being, I think, as she is a musician, people are perfectly justified in discussing these things ... If we were to just not do everything she may not like, we'd have no live videos/recordings and probably little to no discussion.
I respect her and I don't think any of us are being insensitive when discussing the potential details and background of information she has made us privy to.
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That being said, I feel I've seen a lot more support for the "desired/imagined baby" theories over an actual abortion, which is strange to me because the song just screams physical violence to me. However, I have a bit of a tender spot for the idea that it might actually be about a miscarriage, due to my own experiences. The song references guilt, violence AND loss -- so I have a hard time believing there wasn't an actual baby involved. Those feelings would probably be involved in both miscarriage and abortion, but I don't know that the first two would really be involved if the baby had never existed. I always thought the line, "And at the back of what we've done..." sounded so sad and guilty to me -- it reminds me of a line from Me and You and Everyone We Know where the man is talking about his divorce and says with all his and his ex-wife's fighting, his kids should send them to their room to think about what they've done. And then he pauses and goes, "Oh my god. What have we done?" I'm probably projecting, but I don't see how that line, and others, fit into the song if the baby was never real. The sadness over the loss of a desired/imagined baby would be mostly selfish, I think: sadness that she never got to have something she wanted -- whereas an abortion/miscarriage would contain elements of, "I'm sorry for you," because of her perception of another actual life being involved/ended -- and I think it does.
In any case, given what we know, I don't think it makes sense to be anyone else ... But HOOM doesn't feel entirely clear to me as a narrative, so it wouldn't be that surprising if we really had no clue what we're talking about here.
I think perhaps she regrets not having a baby with bill. perhaps she really wanted one. Femininity is so important in her songs. maybe she feels like she has to prove her womanhood.
I know she's so private about her life, but she must know that she has seriously creepy fans. I kinda feel she accepts us as always going to be there, no matter how awkwardly fangirlish we are. She must know that her fans are super serious about their love of her. I know if I were her, I'd have a huuuuge ego, knowing that there are people who devote a shit ton of their time to me. But I am super narcissistic.
Of course, I have one aim, the grotesque. If I am not grotesque I am nothing.
I agree with you ursulabear... I'd be so afraid / in awe if i knew there was someone out there who worshiped myself as i do her haha. In regards to the abortion argument however, I think Joanna has been inclined towards motherhood for awhile now, if not always, so naturally it is a theme often touched upon in many of her songs. Although with the song of baby birch, I think its too... physical somehow, for it to be merely about an 'idea'... She does of course touch on the 'idea' of wanting a child in Sawdust and Diamonds (and they will recognize all the lines of your face in the face of the daughter, of the daughter, of my daughter etc.), but in HOOM she has written a whole song concerning a child that seems so entrenched in guilt and pain that i find it impossible to believe the experience only ever existed in her imagination. Also, this has probably been discussed to no-end already, but does anyone else think that the bird in only skin is the same as the one she's talking about in baby birch?
Which bird? The goose? Isn't the bird in Only Skin a finch? At least she says "finch-down" and it's a brown bird that flies and hits her window -- probably not a goose.
Were you speaking of something else? Or perhaps you meant more in metaphorical terms?
She reminds me of my best friend. Or at least, the narrative voice she employs does. I've read in interviews about her getting gooey-eyed over other people's babies, which is like what I do over other people's dogs. I imagine it's more of a case of her planning a future and then having it brutally taken away from her - again, I may be projecting from the time I envisioned myself living in Canada with my boyfriend, just me and him (and our dogs) and our friends forever, before he stopped loving me. And when that gets taken away from you, it hurts like something that's already real's been taken away from you. I can imagine that if you had the idea that you were thinking you'd have a family, if you'd thought about what your children would be called, what they might look like, it would hurt like hell when you got told you weren't getting any of that. I can imagine the pain being keen enough that these explicitly physical references to violence and bereavement would seem appropriate. If it seems inappropriately self-involved (which I'd dispute anyway), I'd point again to the fact that the whole album is. Every song is about that sort of totally occupying emotion - Have One On Me, I think, is the keenest example, where the whole song's emotional turmoil is played out in the central character's desire to give, though her gifts only ever lead to destruction.