[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead ¤ milky moon ¤ • View topic - Do you listen to Joanna Newsom for the music or the lyrics?
It is undeniable that both are great, but I find it really interesting when people love the same music that I do for completely different reasons! I love JNew first and foremost for the music--I discovered the lyrics a few months later and it would be the understatement of the century to say they were a pleasant surprise. If you had to chose one, which really does it for you--the music itself (chord progressions, melodies, rhythms, etc) or the poetry she produces along with it? Do you remember which it was the drew you to her music in the first place? Which are you more excited about hearing on the new album?
Also, do you usually sit down with a lyric sheet when you listen to it the first time? I realized the other day I didn't know all the words to 'Soft As Chalk'--a song that I have listened to many, many times.
Thanks for starting an interesting thread that I hope starts some thought provoking conversation cause I would love to hear what other people think as well.
The first song of hers I ever heard was shown to me by my best friend. He was/is obsessed with Joanna and her music so I told him to show me his favorite song. He showed me 'flying a kite' which (at the time) I hated so much, strictly for the harsh and "child like" vocals and I didn't even give the music a chance. And I was also appalled at my best friend, whom I think has excellent music taste, could listen to something so terrible. It was 2 years later that I was on skype with the same friend and he was watching me clean my room and he put on 'Good Intentions' and I started dancing while cleaning and I was really into it. And thats how I know that I was turned onto her for the music because I was very VERY surprised to learn that I was dancing to and enjoying Joanna Newsom (who I swore, for 2 years, to never listen to again).
Anyway, I really love her music. The lyrics are just a extra fortunate bonus for me. It normally takes me awhile before I learn the lyrics to songs (or before I even sit down and actually read and understand their meanings) but I find myself listening to her music while I'm working and still noticing just the slightest little perfect details in her arrangements. The arrangements on Ys (and I know VDP did the orchestral parts, but I just mean the songs as a whole) are enough to play a movie in my head and I always find something new or something that I've not noticed before, whenever I put on an album of hers and listen. But to me, when I write music, I often think of it as some sort of mathematical equation and I hate this a lot because I don't like writing like that. But often times I like listening to her songs to listen for patterns and also imagining how she goes about arranging her songs. But I think that just has to do with how I think and me observing her music from a writers POV.
music first, as english is not my native language. I focus on the lyrics on secondary choice. from what I read her lyrics are very interesting but not that easy to get even for native speakers.nevertheless I like the essence of her poetry even if I didn't understand all the meanings of her texts.sometimes I like to translate some parts of her lyrics but her music is the real key of her world for me.
I refused to answer because my answer is "Both"! The lyrics are among the best poetry I've read and the music - about which I'm far less knowledgeable - is among the best music I've heard, and the wonderful thing about her songs is that the two interact so productively. It's not just instrumental music with words on top, or a poem set to music. The lyrics reinforce the music and vice versa, like harp and voice are the same instrument and she's playing them both as one.
I'm with Jordan. The lyrics are as interesting, witty, clever, stunning etc. etc. as the music, and complement it beautifully. Joanna is the artist I wished all my life existed! I'm anxious for new music and new lyrics, it always go together in importance for me. But I always listen to it a lot before reading the lyrics!
My first song was The Book of Right-On live on Jools Holland, and I felt there was something in her music for me, and I was right.
Funny - I read the lyrics as soon as they're released! Mostly because I tend to be pretty involved in the pre-release decipherment efforts, and I'm always eager to find out how wrong we were. Though I have to say, with this latest crop of songs I think we've got it down pretty solidly.
I'm really not sure if I'd listen to the music without the lyrics (or with lesser lyrics) - I mean, it's definitely beautiful, but so much of the emotional experience of the song for me comes from the lyric and the way it's sung, and the music that accompanies it - without the lyrics the music would be... ambiguous, I suppose. I don't play or read music, or know much of anything about it beyond history and what I like, so I don't really enjoy music on the same level that I enjoy poetry.
I do listen to and enjoy instrumental music, but mostly as background music - and Joanna's music is never background music; it's always music that I listen to when I sit down expressly intending to listen to, and attend, music. I like music I can sing along to (at least in my head, if there are people around), and get involved in, and I just can't really immerse myself in a song without a story (or at least, where the story is only implicit).
When I listen to Have One On Me, I can relate to Lola Montez's feelings. When I listen to In California, I'm transported to the times I've been homesick, or sick of home. The lyrics are evocative; they demand identification with the characters, they tease out resolution and form connections and expand your conceptual toolkit for understanding how you feel, for putting a name on it and describing it to yourself. I often get in the mood to listen to a specific song because I'm 'feeling it', and want to sort of feel it out through the music. It's therapeutic.
There are very few instrumental songs I feel the same way about. Instrumental music often strikes me as soundtrack-ish - the music of a film, not the music of an opera or a musical. I don't mean to denigrate soundtracks, because many (most?) of the instrumental songs I do find similarly evocative are, in fact, from soundtracks - maybe because they benefit from my association of them with another form of narrative, with the scene they accompanied in their film or game. I guess that's sort of what I'm getting at - Joanna's music without the lyrics would be like the soundtrack to a film you've never seen, or a game you've never played, in a sense.
I usually fall in love with the sounds and try to understand the lyrics by ear (which is hard sometimes.) The first memories for me are formed like that, just imagining and wondering, and hearing a phrase here and there, connecting words, and the words to the music, reveling in every moment of it. It's always a fantasy-like experience, and I love the things she makes me feel. I agree with you, Jordan, that her music deserves (demands!) full attention. The range of emotions and feelings in her music is so rich, it's fascinating.
Then, when I go to the lyrics, that's when I get really, really obsessed. It's hard to find my way into them sometimes, especially not having English as a primary language. I not only get obsessed with the stories she's telling, but with the language… as I think is the case with most of her listeners. All the lyrics from HOOM specifically are so difficult for a foreigner, there are so many puns and other linguistic games- it's an almost endless source of pleasure for me. Not to mention the wisdom, detail, insight, cleverness they contain. She's widened my mental equipment and given vocabulary to many things I only intuited, allowing me to appreciate life more. She's like a sorceress - makes me want to sing along to the music every time just for the delight of saying those words. That's how important her lyrics are, for me.
This is a great thread, and a difficult question to answer! Back in the very beginning when I started getting into Joanna and Have One On Me, I was far more amazed and attracted to the lyrics than I was to the music. I think it took some time for me to properly appreciate the complexity and beauty of the harp, as well as all of the arrangements. But the lyrics I could connect to immediately, I'd never encountered anything that could even come close to her writing in the context of reasonably accessible music! The title track of hoom completely blew me away, as did Kingfisher, and of course how all the songs are woven together into one of the greatest masterpieces of all time punctuation mark
Now after a year of constant obsession to more or less all of her music it's much less straight forward to answer. I appreciate to a higher extent the connection between the music and the arrangement to the lyrics of the song, as Jordan mentioned. a good example I would say is No Provenance which I think is one of the most depressing and nauseating songs ever written, and how the brass lines hold a clammy constant grip on much of the song stands in good harmony with that. In this case though I think perhaps the song would stand better on its own as a poem than the music would without the weight of the subject matter. For a song like Autumn I think it is the complete opposite. I don't find the lyrics to this song particularly interesting, or even as beautifully crafted as many of her other songs, but I think it is an incredibly beautiful song for many reasons, some of which I've paid tribute to in some other threads. I feel the same way about Cosmia, which I know I would absolutely adore as an instrumental but perhaps not look back to if it were a poem. Again though, the interplay between the lyrics and the music is of course what makes Joanna what she is as an artist, and I feel that way about all of her songs and albums, which is why I went for the "I refuse to answer" option. When it comes down to it, if the lyrics were more conventional, I would still love Joanna's music, but not adore it nearly as much, and the same probably goes for the opposite scenario..
Like Jordan~, I went for "I refuse to answer" because there wasn't a "both" option.
When I listen to music - most music - it is overwhelmingly the music that attracts me, and the lyrics are an added bonus if they're good, but rarely can they rescue duff music. But Joanna is somewhat different, and I put that down to a combination of her unusual delivery and her amazing poetry.
I am drawn to vocalists with a slightly eccentric (but not deliberately so) voices, so I'm well disposed to listen to female artists (or bands with female vocalists) like CocoRosie, Björk, Múm, Life Without Buildings, Nico, Cathy Davey, and Patti Smith, for example. Interesting and unusual male voices are much rarer and often just sound wrong: John Cale gets a vote, and there are others, but I'm struggling to think of another one off the top of my head.
My first exposure to Joanna was with Milk Eyed Mender, so Bridges & Balloons was the first song I heard. The music was (and is) captivating, but I think it was the quirky delivery and wonderfully humourous lyrics that nailed it for me. In particular the line "catenaries and dirigibles" to expand upon "bridges and balloons" laid the foundations of my affection, and it was sealed a couple of tracks later by "even molluscs have weddings / though solemn and leaden". Brilliant. There are more, liberally sprinkled across her songs on all three albums, including "I have washed a thousand spider down the drain / spiders' ghosts hang soaked and danglin' ", "I roam around the tidy grounds of my dappled sanatorium" [but I've just read the next line and have to admit it had previously completely passed me by], and, from the same song, "I have to catch a cab and my bags are at the carousel".
The last example, though, demonstrates the wonderful symbiosis of her words and music, and there are any number of magical moments in her songs. The haunting 'apocalypse' section near the end of Kingfisher, the duet in Only Skin, the 'wave breaks' segment in Sawdust & Diamonds, the ending of Baby Birch, and that intense one-beat pause early in En Gallop ... I could go on and probably list at least one element from 90% of her songs!
A couple of years ago, another MilkyMooner and I started a project to write reviews of every JN song. We didn't get ery far ... in fact we didn't even finish Erin, the very first one we tackled, but even the short time spent on it made me realise how well constructed and evocative even this comparatively "minor" song is. It's a fine example of how the combination of words and music make the whole, and so as stated above, I can't choose.
I sometimes joke that if I'm ever called upon to give a spontaneous recitation of poetry, I have literally hours of it memorised - in that I know the lyrics to most of Joanna's songs by heart, word-perfect, having never made an effort to learn them. I might have to pause now and then to think how the music goes, though - the two are so inextricable to me that just hearing the music summons up the accompanying lyrics, and thinking about the lyrics is impossible without thinking about how they're sung.